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tv   Piers Morgan Live  CNN  March 19, 2013 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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[ male announcer ] get adt installed for just $99. and ask about adt pulse, advanced home management here today. adt. always there. tonight, the steubenville rape case is far from over. are there more convictions to come? what about the new threats against the victim? i talk to attorneys on both sides. plus my exclusive interview with the father of one of the high school football stars who was found guilty. and tracy lords, herself a victim of rape in steubenville. >> i think that there is a sickness in that city. also inside the mind of a killer. reports of adam lanza's bizarre obsession with mass murderers. 500 of them listed on a spreadsheet seven feet long. was it all just a video game come real to him. and crime and punishment with a woman who scares the daylights out of me and millions around the world. patricia cornwell on true crime stories, who done it and why.
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inside the lion's cage, what really happened when a big cat killed a 24-year-old intern? the deadly power of wild animals and my exclusive with the people who run the animal sanctuary. >> she was doing what she loved and did it with joy every day that she worked here. and she's going to be missed. i'm so sorry this has happened. this is "piers morgan live" with breaking news out of a city in turmoil. the mother of the steubenville rape victim asked the heartbreaking question, what if it were your daughter, your sister or your friend? we'll have more from her in a moment as well as my exclusive with the father of one of the teenagers found guilty of rape. meanwhile, two 16-year-old girls are in custody tonight for quite incredibly threatening the victim. one tweeting she would quote, beat her ass. the other threatening to kill her. ohio's attorney general, he
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wants a grand jury to look at whether anyone else should now be charged in a case that is rocking america. we begin tonight, though, with the mother of the victim in the steubenville case speaking about her daughter's ordeal exclusively to cnn. poppy harlow is here with more. poppy, a harrowing day yesterday. lot of repercussions to come in this case, many think. you secured an exclusive piece of audio from the mother of the victim. tell me about this. >> reporter: i did. i had a chance tonight, piers, to meet with the mother of this victim and obviously, her daughter, the rape victim, she, her entire family have a lot of healing to do but tonight, it was about issuing this audio statement so that everyone could hear it and i want to play it now in its entirety. >> my family and i are hopeful that we can put this horrible ordeal behind us. we need and deserve to focus on our daughter's future. we hope that from this, something good can arise. i feel i have an opportunity to bring an awareness to others,
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possibly change the mentality of a youth or help a parent to have more of an awareness to where their children are and what they are doing. the adults need to take responsibility and guide these children. i ask every person listening what if this was your daughter, your sister or your friend? we need to stress the importance of helping those in need and to stand up for what is right. we all have that option to choose. this is the start of a new beginning for my daughter. i ask that you all continue to pray for her and all victims and please respect our privacy as we help our family to heal. thank you. >> reporter: piers, think about the timing here, this coming from the mother of a rape victim just a day after the two convicted rapists are sentenced. very, very powerful to hear from her, to meet her in person and what really stood out to me saying help those in need stand up for what is right and always remember this could be your mother, your sister, your daughter. >> there was also this extraordinary development today
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where two young teenaged girls have been arrested for making horrific threats. no other way to describe it, to this poor young girl who was the victim of this double rape. what do you make of this? is this just another illustration as this case has already illuminated of social media completely out of control with a certain element of teenagers in america right now? >> reporter: absolutely, completely out of control. death threats coming on twitter to this girl from within this community, this small town in ohio where i'm standing now, two arrests being made and i just talked to the sheriff who made those arrests, and he read me the tweets, the threats. i want our viewers to listen but first, a warning that some of the language that he's going to read is explicit. these are the threats from the two teenaged girls you have in custody now, right? >> that's correct. >> reporter: what did they say that made you arrest them?
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>> well, one says you ripped my family apart, you made my cousin cry so when i see you [ bleep ] it's going to be a homicide. i take this seriously. >> reporter: of course. and the next? >> and the next is i'll celebrate by beating the [ bleep ] out of jane doe. >> reporter: so those two girls are going to be in front of a judge right here in the courthouse tomorrow morning at 10:30. the family of the victim and she has security right now, that's what i'm told by the sheriff, and he also said to me look, anyone who crosses the line on social media or anyone else is going to face the consequences just like these two girls, piers. >> pretty shocking development. poppy, thank you very much indeed for your continued excellent coverage from down there. i want to bring in bob fitzsimmons, who represents the 16-year-old victim. bob, welcome back to you. first of all, let me get your reaction to this development, of two young teenaged girls being arrested for making death threats and other kind of really horrific threats towards your client. what is your reaction to that? >> well, it's shocking that it
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would happen, especially after the convictions that occurred and everything this family has been through, and to put them through more of that same stress and fear is just something that nobody's heard about ever before. it's sickening that it's happened and obviously these children need to be addressed also by law enforcement. >> i want to play a clip now, this is of both the convicted rapists making apologies in court yesterday. >> i would like to apologize to you. i had no intention to do anything like that. i'm sorry to bring you that pain. i'd just like -- i'm sorry. i know i ruined her life.
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>> that was actually malik richmond. we cut that short a little bit and didn't have trent mays also making an apology. in terms of that moment in court, it struck me as significant that there he was apologizing for something that he consistently denied being guilty of. did you feel that was a significant thing? >> it was very significant. it was a very emotionally packed moment that occurred in that courtroom where watching this young boy suffer once he realized what the punishment and what had happened at that point, it was hard to watch anybody suffer, a human being like that, and i think everybody in that courtroom was significantly moved and it was those emotions that moved everybody there. not that that was right or acceptable or forgiving at that point, but to see the pain that he had caused himself and others, it was -- myself, it brought almost tears to my eyes to see this young boy's life that he knew many parts of it
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were going to be changed significantly, both boys, at that time. and it was something i know the family was also emotionally moved. the mother was extremely emotionally moved by that. >> powerful though the moment was, the victim here is your client. she's a young teenaged girl who had extreme courage, many would say, in taking this case all the way to court and having her own life laid bare and having now to put up with death threats and god knows what else as a result of simply being a rape victim. how is her state of mind? does she feel any sense of forgiveness to these two young men that did this? >> she has not at this point forgiven anybody for what she's been through, the terrible ordeal. this just adds to everything. the security i want to mention, piers, has just been extreme. the sheriff and his sons have provided that security knowing these types of emotions were going to come out but to add
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this on top of what this young 16-year-old girl has gone through is totally unfair and people need to wake up and do the right thing at this point and accept what's been decided by the judge at this point, and move on and hopefully people can be rehabbed and this family can be given the opportunity to heal themselves. that's what the mom asked for in that statement and that was a big plea that she's asked for everybody. this young girl has been a hero to a lot of people that she stood up but it also demonstrates what women have to go through to make these allegations. it's not easy. it's difficult and we need more people like this young victim to stand up and report these types of bad acts. >> bob fitzsimmons, thank you very much indeed for joining me again. >> piers, thank you. nathaniel richmond is the father of malik richmond, who was found guilty of rape in this case. he joins me exclusively by telephone. welcome to you. let me ask you straight away,
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what is your reaction today to what happened to your son yesterday? >> can you repeat that question, please, sir? >> i'm really asking how you're feeling today as the father of a young man who has been convicted of raping a young teenaged girl. >> well, i'm shocked and surprised that malik was even convicted of the charge of rape, because the evidence that the prosecution presented against malik richmond, there was plenty of reasonable doubt and i still believe in malik richmond's innocence even though he apologized in the courtroom and i have sympathy for the victim's family but there are some things
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that the media and the court knows and doesn't know. >> right. i suppose the obvious question, mr. richmond, is if your son is innocent, why was he apologizing to this girl's family and sobbing as he did so? many took that to be an open categoric admission of his guilt. >> i can't speak for malik. i can only speak for what i believe and the things that i know that wasn't presented in court that the prosecution knows. >> do you feel a sense of guilt, mr. richmond, about the fact you were not there for your son as a father for more than a very little period in his life? >> of course i feel a sense of guilt. i feel a sense of guilt for allowing malik to wind up in a situation like he did. of course i feel a sense of
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guilt. >> i mean, his behavior was appalling. the text messages and the social media use by him and his co-accused and by their friends afterwards talking about this girl in a terribly derogatory manner, the way they treated her when she was, many would say, unconscious and treating her like a piece of meat. what do you feel about that as his father? you must feel a sense of shame, don't you? >> well, first of all, they had no text messages for malik. let me correct that. they had one text message from malik and the question that was asked of malik in the text message, he was responding to something. the evidence that they had against malik was minimal. malik was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.
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i know my son is not a rapist. even though he has been convicted of rape, like i say, i believe in malik's innocence and god will make sure the truth of this matter comes out. i understand the court's decision and i respect it, but i truly believe in my heart the court has made the wrong decision towards malik richmond. i know in my heart malik richmond is not a rapist. >> yet there were witnesses that saw what he and his co-accused did. that is why he's been convicted. we then have him sobbing in court and saying sorry to this girl's family. this is not the behavior of an innocent young man. it's the behavior of somebody who has been convicted and now wants to apologize for what he did. >> well, i can't speak for malik's emotions, but those witnesses that testified against malik were also prime suspects who was granted immunity and
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also one of the guys who was there at the scene of the rape case when the rape allegedly occurred was never -- a dna sample was never taken from him and there was also an unknown specimen of dna found in the girl's crotch area of her clothes. >> mr. richmond, let me ask you this. i understand why you would feel emotional -- >> hold on, hold on. hold o. >> let me just finish. >> hold on, let me finish, please, sir. that one guy whose specimen was not taken, he's the only guy who was granted immunity that actually testified that he saw malik penetrating the victim with his fingers. now -- >> let me ask you, mr. richmond. i understand why you are feeling the way you do. you're his father. >> no, you don't. no, you don't.
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>> i understand that your -- >> you do not understand how i feel. >> i understand that you're his father and you feel emotional. i also understand your son has been convicted of a very serious offense in raping a young woman and what i want to ask you is what is your feeling towards that young girl who went through this terrible ordeal and what is your feeling towards her family? >> well, i feel sorry for the young girl. i hope that she can go on and live a productive life and i feel one day for the things that happened to her, i ask god to give her the strength to forgive those, but i also wish that one day that she would come out and clarify some of the misunderstanding that's surrounding the entire case.
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>> mr. richmond, thank you for joining me. >> thank you. >> joining me now here is walter madison, malik richmond's attorney. mr. madison, it's obvious that the father is very angry there and he's making a number of wild claims. but the bottom line is, his son has been convicted of rape and after being convicted, he walks forward, he sobs, he makes a fulsome apology to the family. that is not the behavior of an innocent young man. >> let's transcend this to a higher level, if we can. we're in juvenile court and these are juveniles and that's -- what america witnessed is exactly what juvenile court is supposed to do. you saw a court staff sobbing. you saw a court reporter -- news reporters sobbing. there wasn't a dry eye in that courtroom. they were crying for malik. what they were crying for is because they witnessed the sincerity of a young man or they witnessed an incredible actor. >> i witnessed the sincerity of a young man who had been found
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guilty and wanted to apologize. i wasn't crying for malik. my emotions are for that poor girl that malik was found guilty of raping. i understand his father taking that view. you're the attorney. justice has been served. your client was found guilty and he made an apology which to anyone with a background of covering courts and journalism, that kind of thing happens when people want to apologize. >> i can understand you pushing in that direction but -- >> did you not think that? >> well, you have about five different questions there. >> let me make it simpler. would you have advised your client to apologize for a crime he's always denied committing? >> well, his apology was for the pain that he caused. he was there, there's no question about it. the question that i think mr. richmond, his dad, is concerned with is whether or not he committed a rape on the evidence that he heard. that's his father and he's going to feel that way. >> will you be appealing, in that case? >> there will be an appeal. there's a legal agenda that we will follow and there's a personal agenda.
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the thing that's really important is that we transcend this. rape is just a terrible, terrible, terrible thing, and -- >> your client, again, your client has only been given at the moment a sentence of about a year in prison, which seems to many people to be ridiculously low as a punishment for a conviction of rape. >> let me tell you about the judge who made that sentence, who pronounced it. he was the judge who wrote ohio's law with respect to who shall be bound over. he was the author of that, if you will. so he knows best. the court that he ran was a model for juvenile courts in the entire united states of america. i think he's qualified better than anyone who had intimate knowledge of the facts of who were candidates for adult prosecution. let's set that straight. they were juveniles for a reason and they were prosecuted in juvenile court for a reason. they didn't have a history and the situation didn't warrant it. now, the lack of evidence are
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the net times you heard malik's name. malik's name wasn't mentioned veryften in that courtroom and he was apologetic for the pain he caused. he was there. >> can you stay for another segment? we have gloria allred joining us. also, tracy lords. she herself was raped as a young girl in steubenville. it would be good if you stayed and we interact with the other two when they come back after the break.
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the steubenville rape case cut a deep divide in the city but the attorney general said the case wasn't about one city, it speaks to a larger cultural problem. back with me is walter madison, attorney for malik richmond. also joining us, attorney gloria allred and actress tracy lords who grew up in steubenville and was raped there at the age of 10. gloria, i will start with you. you heard very emotional reaction from malik richmond's father. you might expect that, he's his father. what do you make of this verdict? what does it say about steubenville or indeed, america and teenagers today? >> well, the judge did find that both defendants were delinquent, in other words, that they were guilty of the crime of rape and one of them was guilty not only of the crime of rape, but also
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displaying images of a minor in nudity oriented material which of itself is a crime. i was very interested in what you had to say, sir, because you seemed to be wobbling about your client's so-called apology. was he acting, was this just heartfelt? which is it? you really can't have it both ways. >> i can't fool everyone. there wasn't a dry eye in the courtroom. so it's easy for you to be critical, for whatever reason you have, but you can't fool everyone. there wasn't a dry eye there. that was sincere. what you witnessed was the compassion of that young man. that was his character. >> compassion for what? what pain did he cause? why don't you just say it? he raped her. he put two fingers inside a vagi 02:00 vagina of a child when she did not have the opportunity to resist. >> they're both children. >> all right but one of them is guilty of a crime and one of them is the victim of a crime. there's a big difference between the two. there's no equality between
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them. >> one would disagree with that, because people that feel the way you do felt that they should be prosecuted as adults and that just isn't the case. the fact that his name was mentioned four or five times in the trial is the case. the fact that they, his parents, feel that we might have the wrong person here, there's no equity in the verdict, is the case and i think that's the opinion of a vast majority of people. i received 96 e-mails today of people from oregon to maine, people who are on the other side of this, have shown sympathy and compassion and have identified -- >> to be fair, i have also seen on twitter a blowup of people enraged by this case, particularly enraged by the culture of behavior of these young men, particularly again related to a football team, maybe they just get into their heads -- tracy, you heard it being described as a cultural thing in a wider sense. you believe it's something that steubenville has had a problem
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with for a long time. >> i do believe that and i have to tell you, i did not cry. i think that they were crying because they got caught, not because they did something wrong. that's the big issue here. once again, you're putting the victim on trial. you're torturing her. if he's so sorry, one day he's sorry, the next day he's going to appeal and put her through it again. i think it's disgusting. unbelievable. and the father, and the father, the apple does not fall far from the tree. he is the stupid in stupidville. truly. >> there is no reason to be critical of people. >> the father -- i think the -- >> there is definitely a reason. >> the father -- >> there is definitely a reason. >> the father can be criticized for not being around when his son was young and he can be criticized by his own admission for being an alcoholic but there's no suggestion he's ever been a sex offender. we have to make that very clear. he's never been a rapist. the apple -- >> that's not what i'm saying. i'm saying for him to say that his son is innocent and there was no evidence is just a whole lot of nonsense.
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i wonder what trial he was at. >> there clearly was evidence. >> the one you weren't at. >> there clearly was evidence against your client. >> there was evidence, very thin. there was evidence. but the question is was the evidence sufficient to establish proof beyond a reasonable doubt. obviously -- >> yes, there was. it was. >> if i may, miss lords. clearly, the people who were there who sobbed, court staff, news reporters and all the like and spectators, they disagreed. >> no, no, no. >> that doesn't really matter. >> you know something, we don't decide things by a poll, by a poll of people in the courtroom, by a poll of -- that's not how we decide cases. >> people were not just emotional because they thought he was innocent. you can be moved to emotion by a moment of high drama like that. >> what do we do? how do we advance this? >> let me tell you. >> how do we advance this to a higher level? >> i think you have to start from a position that the biggest victim here is not your client. he has been convicted of rape. >> i'm not saying that.
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>> i'm saying this. from everything i've seen, the biggest victim is this poor young girl who was unconscious for most of this experience, she was being carried around half naked, she was clearly being abused. the next day, she is compounded by this revolting behavior on social media with pictures of her in her worst possible vulnerable moment being spread around with these kids. >> and now there are people threatening her, threatening to beat her. >> not my client. >> i didn't say that. threatening to beat her and kill her. >> that's why people are upset for malik richmond. none of that, he did. >> that's not the point. >> i think it's exactly the point. >> what is your view of that behavior? >> it's abhorrent. i don't support it one bit. i am not here supporting that. my client, i'm here as a representative of malik richmond. malik richmond did none of those things. malik richmond had one text out of a day full of testimony full of text messages and e-mails and tweets which he had none, okay? >> but it's not really just
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about the text. it's about the crime of violence that he committed against a 16-year-old. >> but this is low level. how do -- where do we go from here? >> where we go from here is we say we acknowledge if a person does something wrong, then we make amends to that person. >> according to you, he did so and you're criticizing him. he did so and you're criticizing him. >> well, but i think you need -- you said he's going to appeal. so obviously he doesn't agree with the judgment of the court. >> no, i didn't say what. >> oh, so you're not going to appeal from the judgment of delinquency? >> i don't believe he should have to register as a sex offender until he dies. >> that is part of the punishment. if in fact he is guilty of this crime, he does have to register as a sex offender and others need to know that is one of the consequences of rape. >> i think you would be in the minority on that opinion. >> i don't think so. >> you'll have your chance, miss lords.
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i don't believe that a person at 75 years old should have to explain for something they did at 16 when scientific evidence would support your brain isn't fully developed. when the evidence in a case would suggest that you were under the influence. >> listen, i have three teenaged sons. when you get to 16, 17, your brain is developed enough to know you shouldn't be raping girls. >> -- would disagree. >> i don't think so. you get to 17, you're nearly a man. >> either way, would you want to be judged for the rest of your life for something you did at 16? >> well then maybe you ought to think about that. >> you engaged in behavior i don't think people would approve of either. >> excuse me. i have been judged my whole life because of what happened to me as a young girl. i was a young girl. don't make her a victim. >> i'm not talking about that. did you choose to make adult films? did you choose to make adult films? >> i was a 15-year-old girl and i don't need to apologize to you, honey. >> what is the relevance of that?
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>> you're in the wrong here. it is so wrong. >> that was a choice she made. >> that was a choice she made. >> i'm not critical of her. >> it also wasn't a criminal act. >> i'm not judgmental of her. >> you must be judgmental. that's why you brought it up. no one else did. >> i want to bring this to a halt. the bottom line is this girl is the real victim. i understand why you feel the way you do. i understand why his father does. but he's a convicted rapist and if he wins on appeal, come back here and we'll have another conversation. >> let me be clear. did you hear me disagree with that? >> i've got to leave it there. we'll debate this again. everyone is still talking about this. it's a very contentious issue. thank you for coming today. thank you, gloria and thank you, tracy.
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the in any case, the pope will go around the square and then into st. peter's basilica where he'll be addressed for the event and then will go down to the tomb of saint peter and pray at the tomb and also for the first time see
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the papal ring, and it will be presented a little bit later on in the mass. then he'll come up and begin the mass at 10:00 rome time. we've got on hand here as you mentioned a huge number of dignitaries. more than 30 heads of state, a dozen heads of government, half dozen crowned heads from around europe, a couple of princes and a number of religious delegations which encompass practically every denomination you can imagine, john. >> jim, you are in rome with the crowd starting to trickle in there. you have established that the pope has in a few days quite a connection with the italian people. >> i think so, yes. one of the things that has been i think quite attractive for a lot of people is the informality, his approach to people and the fact that he's been out in the crowds. of course, it's been a nightmare for the security people because they just don't know what to expect. we don't, in fact, know too much what to expect. we know the outline for the mass
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and we know how it basically will transpire according to the vatican, but there may be some ad lib moments. one of the things we're looking for, we haven't gotten quite yet from the vatican press office, the pope's remarks, the home homily. we've already been warned the pope might deviate and ad lib from there. we've got to do a little bit better job than reporting than perhaps the vatican press core has in the past. >> jim bittermann, we'll be back to you. everyone loves the hope who mixes it up. >> take a look at all of these pictures. st. peter's square is alive and bustling at this hour with giant crowds of tourists. locals and pilgrims are there. our senior international correspondent ben wedeman is there. ben, you are in the crowd. paint a picture this morning. >> reporter: it's a beautiful day here in rome unlike
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yesterday when it was raining and windy. there are lots of people coming here. now the italian authorities have made public transportation in rome free until 2:00 p.m. to ensure that as many people as possible can come here. now we understand the capacity for st. peter's square and the road leading up to it is about 250 thousand people. the rome authorities said yesterday they expected perhaps a mill. that might be something of an over estimate. today is a normal working day in rome. lots of people who might want to come might not be able to come. we see a lot of security, a lot of people, a lot of police making their way up the road to attend this historic ceremony. zoraida. >> i saw some pictures yesterday of some chairs being set out. are there official tickets also for the celebration today?
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>> our understanding is this is very much a vip ceremony as far as anything beyond the square itself. so as i think jim mentioned earlier, there are 132 countries represented here. there's heads of state, kings and princes and others, but in terms of access to the ceremony, it's going to be fairly limited to a small number compared to the number that will be outside in st. peter's square and the roads leading up to it. zoraida. >> ben wedeman, we'll continue checking in with you. let's bring in our panel. we have an esteemed panel. father edward beck, cnn contributor. in rome we're joined by sister mary ann walsh, meeting director for the conference of catholic bishops. john allen is a senior vatican reporter and we are lucky to
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have all three of you here with us today. sister maryanne, let me start with you. i have a cnn poll that shows pope francis with an astounding rating, 88% approval. his introduction seems to have gone well so far. >> absolutely. he's a man of the people. they're relating to him on a wonderful emotional level. probably one of the most favorite saints of our church, st. francis of assisi. by choosing that, he touched people's hearts very deeply. >> i want to talk to you about the pomp and circumstance. this is quite an event. i want to talk a little bit about the coat of arms and the symbolism. if you can walk us through that, i would appreciate it. >> sure. the first point to make is although this is being called an
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inaugural mass, this isn't like a presidential inauguration. he's been pope. this is a mass to invest him with the key symbols of his office. one is the pallium which is the cloth stoll symbolizing the chief shepherd of the church. the gold-plated ring, the fisherman's ring, which symbolizes his authority as the successor of peter, the leader of the catholic church. we're also going to see unveiled, so to speak, the pope's coat of arms. it has the latin letters ihs, when this symbol, meaning the cross, the symbol of the jesuit order from which he comes and a star representing mary, the star of the sea, and a flower representing joseph, mary's husband and the patron of the
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church and today is the feast of joseph. today is the perfect day to inaugurate a pope. >> father beck is on the set. father, when we first brought up the live pictures of st. peter's square in the vatican. you got a giant smile on your face. explain to me what this day means to you. >> you'll recall that st. francis is famous for saying preach the gospel always but when necessary use words which means that your actions tell who you are and what you're about. that's what we've seen in this pope, his actions. they've been so unskrimted. supposedly he's messing up the security details. we want to be surprised by this mope, and we have been. i'm so looking forward to the ceremony. what john was saying, this is true. this is the inauguration of this
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pope. it's more like the inaugural ball. it's the celebration of what's already occurred. he's already pope. he doesn't take an oath to anybody during this mass. no one receives his vow. he's already pope. we're really just celebrating what's already occurred, and i'm looking forward to the celebration. it looks like it's going to be a fantastic one. >> we're lucky to have you here, father beck. we need to take a break. >> we're going to see the first sight of pope francis today. we're going to talk about all the dignitaries and all the surprises there. we'll be right back. [ anouncer ] ihop is in time square to compare new griddle-melts to your usual breakfast sandwich. a lot more flavor. [ anouncer ] ihop's new griddle melts... made fresh and hot! hand crafted just for you. it's like a sexy sandwich. [ anouncer ] compare new griddle melts yourself. just $4.99. it's an epic breakfast sandwich.
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just look at that. >> it's fantastic. that, of course, st. peter's basilica. a beautiful look inside the square at the vatican where shortly we will see the installation of pope francis. the official ceremony really celebrating his beginning as the leader of 1.2 billion catholics around the world. >> this is the inaugural mass. really spectacular.
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>> welcome back to the special edition of "early start." we are expecting our first look at pope francis in the popemobile. he's expected to leave the santa marta residence where he is living until his papal amounts are ready. >> today is the first time st. francis rides in the famous popemobile. he doesn't like flashy cars. he took the bus and the subway to work. he was also known to walk the streets of buenos aires and talk to the people. after being selected as pope, francis rode back from the papal conclave on a bus with the cardinals. again, refusing a chauffeured limousine. you're taking a look at a picture of it right there. it's quite the moment. >> say serious issue. >> it had the official license plates. i'm not riding in that, i'm going back on the bus with the rest of the cardinals.
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>> when you see that picture, father beck, that's an amazing sight to see. >> and such a brotherhood. you can tell. look at the smile there. you can tell how much they enjoy each other. why wouldn't he want to be with them after spending such an historic moment with them. why would he want to ride with them. how many of us would want to take the bus? it looks like a high school football team heading to a game. it doesn't look like a group of people who have chosen a leader. >> a retired football team at least. >> he kind of says, i don't really want all the pomp and circumstance, yet he is the pontiff, the pope, the leader of the roman catholic church. how do you reconcile those two. >> it's going to be a difference for them. if you're going to live like a king, you're not going to have much credence with your people. now that you're pope of 1.2 billion people worldwide, some of this is going to come to you and you're not going to be able to shoo it.
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he doesn't want to put it all down or say look what benedict did, i'm not going to do any of that, but yet he wants to transform the image of the papacy. so effectively he's already done that, again, by his actions. his words and his actions, but he's walking the talk. >> i want to bring in now father kevin ering. father, you were in rome in 1978. you were there when pope john paul ii, for that installation. this one we're many, many years later. what do you think are the similarities and what do you think will be the differences? >> the very first thing that happened in 1978 was that pope john paul i and then ii, they ashooed any notion of pontiff if i case. they walked in and they a shooed the papal tiara.
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as john allen said and john beck said, it's the inauguration of the holy father to the ministry. he's not calling himself the vi vickar of christ. all of these terms are important. once you are the bishop of rome, you invite a lot more acumenical consensus of this role and what it might be. inauguration of the petrine administration not vickar of christ. >> monseigneur, we are seeing our first live pictures of pope francis riding atop the popemobile. >> no enclosure. there is no enclosure there. let's listen for a moment.
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[ speaking foreign language ] so the first thing i notice here is the fact that the popemobile is not enclosed very much keeping in mind with pope francis and his connection to people and having access, but a little concerned about that. what did you say? does that concern you at all? tnchts father beck, is security an issue, do you think? >> i think it probably will always be an issue, but it just seems right now that for pope francis, he's not going to let it get in the way of his want be to be a shepherd of his flock. the masses during the week ends, he broke through the barriers and shook hands with his
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parishioners. he stood outside that church and pressed the flesh. >> i also have to say, across the vatican tv and the media savvy world we're living in, they have a lot of different angles including one from the pope mobile. you have a pope's eye view as he's driving through st. peter's square. >> do we have time, allen, available to us? john, could you walk us through where he is right now, where he's headed? >> well, the pope, he has entered in this open aired jeep. you're absolutely right, zoraida. this is another instance of pope francis putting his own touch on things. this is how john paul ii used to move through the square prior to the assassination attempt in 1981. then they developed the enclosed popemobile. he does not want to be in a bubble, he wants to be as accessible to the people. he's making what the italians
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call a giro, a swing through the square. he will end up in st. peter's basilica. after he gets out of the jeep they will ascend to the tomb of peter. by tradition the bones of peter, the physical remains of saint peter are located where they will take the pallaiu, the cloth stoll, the fisherman's ring, and that will be brought up into procession into the sort of staging air and the heart of st. peter's square where he will formally receive that pallium and that ring which are the symbols of his office. the italians, zoraida and john, have already taken to calling pope francis the unpredictable pope. from the very outset this morning we're seeing another sign of that unpredictability. a pope who's simply not going to be shackled by the way things have always been done but who is
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clearly putting his own stamp on the office. >> we are seeing some beautiful pictures of the pope as he is driving from st. peter's square, flags waiving. people clearly from all over the world, countries all over the world represented in that square. jim bidderman, this is your fourth papal inaugural. you have been to many of these. i wonder if you can describe what it's like being there right now as pope francis does move about the square. >> well, i think it's an amazing sight. it's always an amazing sight when you see a pope moving through as this one is right now, sort of unprotected. it was, as john said, you know, that's what got john paul ii in trouble. the assassination attempt. that put him out of action for six months. it's a very sort of dangerous move for a pope, but on the other hand, if you want to be a man with the people, you want to be down with the crowds, you
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have to do it. after john paul ii there was a little bit of a distance. the glass bullet proof shelter that he moved around in subsequent to that. one of the things that father irwin hinted at, he's been to a number of inaugurations, one of the things he hinted at, a pope used to ride around on a chair carried by four foot men. i think that was abandoned under paul vi. that shows how the papacy has changed. there's been a steady and pronounced transition from the formality of yesteryear and the formality. this kind of informality is the kind of thing that perhaps after john paul ii, that a number of vatican watchers may have hoped for from his successor but, in fact, didn't see too much from benedict xvi. we're seeing that kind of informality and touch with the crowd that john paul ii had.
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>> you mentioned an informality, jim. they brought a baby up. to kiss a baby. we see at the side of the popemobile some security detail. i would imagine the security detail here is massive. >> in a way it's massive but in a way it's not massive and we can't see the things of ali aja. this kind of scene. how could you as a security person protect anyone from aass. there's some screening but they can't screen everybody. as a consequence, it's a very vulnerable thing and he's a vulnerable figure when he's doing this sort of thing. >> jim bidderman, we just saw an amazing image, pope francis being handed a baby, kissing a
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baby that was handed to him in the popemobile as he drives around. oh, my goodness. he looks like he is getting out of the popemobile. i do not know if he has arrived or if he is getting down to greet the people. father beck, this is extraordinary. >> doesn't it remind you of the inaugural parade. >> oh, he's going to bless a sick man. >> somebody's holding a man there. he is giving a blessing right now. we've talked about unscripted moments. we had no words that pope francis was going to get out of the pope mobile and walk around. that is clearly what's happened. >> it's quite possible he saw that sick man there. he said, stop, i want to bless him. when the president and the first lady get out of the limousine and want to walk among the people. he wants to touch his flock. >> i will also explain the significance of that for the man who is holding somebody there who is obviously sick to get the pope's blessings. >> to put it in simple terms, it doesn't get any better than
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that. doesn't everyone want a papal blessing from the most holy man in the world? >> we've talked about the symbolism this morning. already we have three. we have the pope riding around in this open air popemobile. totally symbolic to remove any barriers from himself and his flock, kissing a baby and kissing a sick man who is being held there, getting out of the pope mobile. >> if we go back to something jim was saying. paul vi was the last to be carried around on a throne and have a coronation. soon after he realized it wasn't a correct image. he took the tiara. he put it on the altar. i won't wear it. sell it and give the money to the poor. that was the last time we had a papal throne in coronation. john i said no throne and no coronation. >> we have sister mary ann walsh. i ag